3 Podcast Guesting Tips with Kathleen Gage
Branding with Friends | Episode 13
Featuring Expert Guest: Kathleen Gage, Power Up for Profits
Watch or listen to the video interview below or scroll down to read the transcription.
Meet Kathleen Gage, Podcast Guesting Expert and Visibility Advisor
Annie: My guest today is the dynamic Kathleen Gage. Kathleen is known as the no-nonsense, common sense business strategist, speaker, author, content marketer, and owner of Power Up for Profits and Plant-Based Eating for Health. She's been an online marketer and visibility strategist for over 20 years and she's owned her current business since 1994. Kathleen has both interviewed and been interviewed over a thousand times. She knows what to do to get asked back again and again. Her focus is working with bonafide experts who have an important message and mission who are willing to go the distance to play full out. Kathleen, I'm so glad you're here thanks for being on Branding with Friends.
Annie: I was asking around for topics and I believe Diana Needham, who was on one of our shows talking about book marketing, said you've got to get Kathleen. Especially if you're interested in podcasts and I know so many people who have service-based small businesses want to become more visible. They want to become in-demand podcast guests. You have a long history with this. You've been interviewed a ton as you know over a thousand times, so tell us a little bit about how you got into the world of helping people get booked on podcast shows.
Kathleen: Well I actually started in broadcast media back in 1986. We're going back a while and I was just thinking I've owned my business over a quarter of a century and that makes me feel really old. But really what it is, is just time in the industry. As the internet became popular back about 20-22 years ago, podcasting was a non-existent entity. Over time first we had websites which back then you had to really know html to put a website up or you had to hire somebody. Then we had blogging. Then we had article marketing and it's gone the whole gamut. Podcasting is really one of the best platforms for somebody to actually showcase what their expertise is. It's been really a matter of recreation over and over again in the last 20, 25 plus years that I've been in business.
Annie: You have such an incredible perspective that I think a lot of business owners you know the people who are leading in the space have many times been in business for just a few years. You have of experience you're bringing to bear. It's like podcasts are the newest iteration. How fantastic that you have this overview of content marketing over time and what it means to become visible.
These are things that you can do if you want to become an in-demand podcast guest. So without further ado we're going to save that third one for the end as you remember. But in terms of the first place we start what is the most important thing a small business owner should do if they want to get booked on podcasts?
#1 Action TIP
Know the podcast show well and if it's a fit for your business before you pitch
Kathleen: I'm going to add a fourth tip in. The number one tip is you have to have the desire to do so and you have to get over the fact that you're not going to be perfect. We were talking about that earlier and a lot of times people want everything to be perfect. They want their delivery to be perfect and what you're going to find is the more you're yourself the better off it's going to be. It's not about having a polished presentation. It really is about creating value and being willing to just put yourself out there.
The number one tip for getting on shows is to realize you're not going to go from zero to sixty overnight. It takes planning. It takes progress. It takes commitment and I have people who say well how do I get on the big shows? I want to get on the big shows because they seem to think that one big show is going to do it for them and then they never have to be on a podcast again. What you're going to find is, if you find some of the smaller shows and you start with that and you grow into the bigger shows, oftentimes you don't need the bigger shows. It's what I call the Oprah syndrome. People want to get on Oprah and they have never been on a TV show in their local market. It's the same with podcasting, a lot of people want to get on the Lewis House Show or they want to get on the Hal Elrod show or whatever big show within their industry. The reality is that if you really focus on smaller shows you're going to perfect your message. You're going to get really good at what you do and you're going to get very comfortable with what you do. You'd rather quite seriously make mistakes on smaller shows than the bigger shows.
Annie: I think there's something really to be said for that. That's something I try to teach my entrepreneurs as well is that it's not about having a hundred thousand followers. It's not about being on the biggest things. You don't go from zero to sixty as you've been saying. You don't just go jump to Oprah. Some people are lucky enough to do that but generally speaking there's so much value to be had to sort of work your way up and be a part of audiences that are smaller but really powerful, really royal, and too your point perfecting the message. If you could talk a little bit about that, obviously it's Branding with Friends. What do you tell your clients about how branded they need to be before they can go pitch themselves to the podcast they want to be on?
Kathleen: It's something that evolves because I look at how in the time I've been in business my message has evolved, my purpose has evolved and so if you think that you're going to have it all figured out right away you're not going to. It's something that you grow into.
I'll use myself as a great example. About two years ago I went plant-based and now I focus a lot of my attention on the plant-based market. I get on plant-based shows. What drove me in the beginning when I went plant-based is very different than what's driving me now. If I would have expected to have it all figured out a week into eating plant-based, I would have been sadly mistaken.
It's the same with the experts that I work with. I have one client who was a stroke victim. She calls herself a stroke survivor and a stroke thriver now. She wrote a book and actually Diana was her mentoring coach on getting her book to market. The book is called Stroke Forward and Marcia Moran is the author. It's interesting because she is probably my most ideal client. When I say go try this, she'll go try it. She gets a great result. She comes back and she goes I got on 10 shows this is really amazing. She's not worried about having everything perfect. She's actually evolving into her message and she's getting on bigger and bigger shows all the time.
Annie: It sounds like it's a lot of practice. Getting out there and using your message is really critically important. I talk a lot about that when we do work together. When I create a brand voice guide for a client. I say this is a tool kit. Like any tool kit, if you leave it in the shop and don't go use it it's not going to build you anything. If you don't get out there and start practicing and using your message clearly, consistently, confidently, it's not going to happen. It's not going to do the work for you to just have the right words, you have to go speak them on podcasts and to try to pitch yourself. I think I used to call that skip to action. Forget the lights and camera and just skip to action.
Kathleen: I've been in the speaking world for 25 years also and I find there are some similarities between the speaking world and the podcasting world. People want things to be perfect and they're never going to be perfect. When you go and you do a speaking presentation the lights may fall down. Quite seriously I've had some of the most bizarre things happen. Rather than worrying about that and saying oh my gosh why did that happen. You just incorporate that into the experience. It's the same with podcasting.
Annie: That reminds me too, I'm also a speaker and I was giving a branding workshop a few years ago and the fire alarm started going off. The really loud fire alarm and we're a big group and I'm answering questions and people stayed, not only for the first fire alarm but it went off three or four times. I thought wow, you guys must really want the answers to this because this is a hot presentation. Even your worst fears are going to be okay you have to just get out there and do it. I love that tip. What is the second thing that people should keep in mind about this?
#2 ACTION TIP
Listen to the episodes ahead of time so you're well versed to both pitch and appear
Kathleen: The next one would be research the shows you're going to be on. I'll use my show as an example. I have a show Plant-Based Eating for Health. Number one criteria and there's no there's no deviating from this at all is the people that I have on my show must be 100 percent plant-based eaters and life stylists. There is no exception to the rule and I've had people contact me and say well I do the Keto diet or I do this. First of all it's not a diet show so that's the distinction. If they would listen to the episodes they would know.
In your research, you want to research the show. You want to research the host. You want to listen to some of the episodes and you want to know what the show is about before you actually pitch the host. Because if what you're pitching is completely off in left field don't think that you're going to be that one person that the host is going to make an exception to the rule. A great example would be shows that don't have guests on them. I have several friends and colleagues who have shows where they're solo and they have people pitching saying yeah, I was listening to your show and I know that I would be a great guest. The host says well if you would have listened, you would know that I don't have guests on my show. Not every show is going to have a guest on it. Don't think you're going to be that one magical person. What you have to do is you have to play by certain rules and the rules are you have to know the show, you have to know something about the host. I was actually listening to one of your episodes where the expert was talking about going on social media and you can learn a lot about people by simply looking at their Facebook page. You can look at their LinkedIn profile, their Instagram. You find out a lot about people and if you know certain things like for example if I want to connect with somebody and they're very into animals. I have a lot that I can talk about because I rescue them. So again, do your research on the show.
Annie: I think that's such a really critical point. Something I want to add to that is, don’t only play by the rules but remember that you need to be professional at all times. One of the things I find really unprofessional is when people will pitch me for things. Like you said, I'll get an email that's says, can I guest post on your blog? I've never had a guest poster on my blog, for example. They're not even taking the time to get to know me. Another great example for anybody who's worked in a big company, I've worked at Disney. I've run a successful business. I get emails from people, students who want my time but know nothing about me other than I worked for Disney. They want all my time to help them get an internship or a job at Disney.
You want to put on the air that you care enough about the person you're reaching out to and their goals, that you're willing to do the work. It's better to apply to one or two podcasts than a hundred and have it be the right pitch.
Kathleen: There's plenty of platforms now and there's plenty of membership programs now where you can join and you can actually pitch to host that are looking for guests. It is time-consuming on some levels. But it doesn't have to be on other levels. If you're really targeted and you're clear on the type of shows that you would be a good fit for. It's really more about the audience than it is the host. Because the host wants their audience to really enjoy the content and it's not about going on and pitching a whole bunch of stuff. You're not even there to sell anything because think of your own listening habits and your own viewing habits. If you really like an expert you're going to go search out their information. It's not that you have to be overt about selling and it shouldn't be overt selling.
Annie: Visibility is all about building up your know, like, and trust factor. Allowing people to get to know you. You don't get to know somebody to your point if you're like buy my glasses, buy my book. Maybe it's sharing your story, why you care, your message.
Kathleen: What I like about what you made very clear from the beginning before we even started this conversation is that this is not about pitching. This is about creating massive value. This is about giving tips. It's not a training per se but it's really about tips and I really appreciated your clarity. Oftentimes hosts aren't that clear and so that tells me something about the quality of show that you have.
Annie: We're always a work in progress. We’re a couple episodes into Branding with Friends and figuring this out as we go and to your first tip –– not worrying about it being perfect. If there's a technical issue, we're just going to have the conversation. Absolutely! It's been such a gift. I have to tell you that I think that going back is so powerful because I'm hearing already from people who didn't watch the episode at first when it came out but now have gone back and watched several episodes. They're telling me they've hired some of these people and are now working with them. They are so excited to finally have the right person in their lives. Those people didn't come on and pitch they came on and shared their story and what they could do to help you.
Kathleen: I want to do a shout out to Diana because she is a master coach with book marketing. I used to do that back in the day very long time ago, about 20 years ago when Amazon campaigns were just starting to grow. I was one of maybe three or four people who taught people how to do the Amazon campaigns. I've watched Diana really grow nicely into this and the quality of clients that she works with and produces their books and their marketing campaigns. You bring on amazing experts. I listen to your episodes and think this is rockstar stuff.
I have to tell you from an older woman's perspective, I'm going to be 66 soon. I look at younger people and I went to a bunch of my colleagues and I said, what we ought to do is we should do some podcast episodes around the grandmothers of the industry. A lot of us have been around for 20-25 years. But in certain circles, younger people are more well known. t's kind of like knowing that there's a time and a place for everything. As much as somebody can learn from me, I can learn from somebody who's substantially younger than I am.
Annie: I love that idea about celebrating the experience and that's something I see a lot. I would say my primary ideal clients are women in their 40’s to 60’s who are reinventing themselves. They're becoming coaches and consultants and service-based business owners. They're in that bucket of powerful women that have these decades of experience but have not been able to give themselves credit for that through branding and through becoming visible through their branding, through their messaging. How do they tell their story? How do they give themselves credit? That's something I think women in particular really struggle with and that's something I've become a big advocate for is count those clients, show what you can do.
Like you said, I've been interviewed over a thousand times. I'm going to remember that. That's a clear sign of success. We don't want to hide who we are even if we're older. If we're older we have so much great experience to share.
Kathleen: What's great about what we're going through in our society now and the direction business is going, is that there are a lot of people who have been in corporate jobs that have either left by choice or they've been forced out due to economic situations. As a result, they're going to be starting businesses. There are people in their 40's, 50's, 60's, even into their 70's who are reinventing themselves. One of the things I tell them is use the platform of podcasts to get your message out there and really decide what is it you want to do with your life because I think we're at such a great time in our history right now of business. I went through it with 2008 and 9/11. I've gone through periods in my business where things were going great, multiple six-figure business. Everything's coming along and literally overnight everything crashed and there's a few things you can do with that. You can either pull the covers over your head. You can say I quit. I don't want to do this or you can let yourself be under the covers for a while. Pull yourself out and then say okay what do I do with what I've learned. What direction do I need to go? Quite seriously in my own life right now as I move into getting closer to my 70's, which just blows me away. I look at that and say what do I want to do with my life?
Well part of it is the whole issue of people taking responsibility for their health. I'm using podcast shows as a way to get my message out there.
Annie: I know you've got one more tip to share with us. But before we do that I know you have something even better to share with our listeners so go ahead and tell us what is that thing that you are going to share with Branding with Friends.
Don’t miss this special opportunity for “Branding with Friends” fans…
Grab Kathleen’s Free How to Become an In-demand Podcast Guest Webinar Training powerupforprofits.com/checklist
Kathleen: I have a checklist for how to get on podcast shows. It's a really nice document. It's about 15 pages long…I'm a little extreme in what I do. But it's a real nice, clear-cut step-by-step checklist of how to get on podcast shows and there's a video training that comes with it. It's at powerupforprofits/branding. I'll tell you it's a great resource. There's no charge for it and it's real quality information.
Annie: If you guys have been listening and you've been thinking about okay, I need to get on that podcast. What do you need to do? Kathleen literally just handed you a checklist. Make sure to check that out. I'll also tell you if today's conversation got you thinking about your brand. Is your message clear? Are you feeling confident about how you're branding yourself, the tools you're using like a logo or a message? If that's something you want to talk about, I actually offer 20-minute complimentary consultations. If you want to book one of those just go to greateststorycreative.com and hop directly on my calendar and we can chat. So, you have ways to connect with Kathleen, ways to connect with me.
But what is that final tip? We've talked a lot today about not aiming for intense ceilings like Oprah. We want to you know right level and not be a perfectionist about what we're doing and we also want to be very intentional about researching people before we pitch them. Listening to the show, knowing if we're a good fit especially for that audience. What is that third thing we really need to keep in mind if we want to be on podcast?
#3 Action Tip
Stick With It
Kathleen: It's not that you shouldn't aim to be on Oprah. I'm not telling people not to do that but work into it. Where I really learned that it really ties into the third tip which is stick with it. A lot of people will try something for a little while. They don't get the result they think they should get and they give up. I’ve got to tell you, if you want to be successful at anything you have to stick with it and where I really learned this out of anything I've ever done is when I ran my first marathon. I was 61 years old. I decided okay I'm going to do a marathon. What do I do when I move into my 60's? Well what do most people do? I don't know but I'm going to do a marathon. I trained and trained and trained and there were shortcuts I took which I shouldn't have taken. I thought well I'll take the shortcut because then I don't have to work as hard. Well I found out the day of the marathon that had I really applied myself to the training I would have done much better at the full marathon. At mile 19 I was ready to give up. It was in that moment at mile 19 that I actually had somebody in front of me and they were riding their bike next to me and I'm kind of dragging along and they said oh you're not quitting. You've worked far too hard for this, you're not quitting. I don't care if you have to crawl across the finish line and sometimes we have to crawl across the finish line and it can feel like that. Yet it's really about sticking with it.
If you have a vision, look at your big why. Why are you doing what you're doing? What is so important about your message and if you're only doing things for money. In the years I've had my business, I've made millions of dollars. So, it's not like I don't like money. I like money but I also know that if money is my only motivator, I'm not going to stick with something. So have your vision. Have your why. Have your goals of where you want to go and stick with it because I will tell you it's not always going to be a bed roses. But once you get through the tough times it really gets fun.
Annie: Oh fantastic! That’s such a great note to end on today. I totally agree with you and I think that's one of the biggest things that business owners need to take to heart. Whether it comes to branding, marketing, your business overall. I see too many people lack persistence. You have to go the race. You have to go the distance as they say in Disney's Hercules. I'm a big Disney nerd as you all know. So, the whole point is to stick with it. I think that's beautifully and eloquently said. I will tell you that none of this happened overnight. My business didn't grow overnight. Kathleen didn't make her millions of dollars through her businesses or all those thousands of interviews overnight. It happens a little bit at a time and if you give up too soon it's not going to happen. That's the biggest thing I'm seeing is people try it out for a couple weeks, oh it's not working and they give up. This is a long game to be an entrepreneur. It takes not days, not weeks, not months, but years and decades to really build a career and you're a great example of that, Kathleen.
Thank you so much for joining us today on Branding with Friends. We hope that you enjoyed yet another episode of Branding with Friends. So many thanks to my special guest Kathleen Gage. Tune in next time when we're going to tackle yet another topic that where branding is going to meet business. Until then I'm Annie Franceschi of Greatest Story Creative. Find all our episodes, branding resources, and more at our website greaterstorycreative.com. If you go there you can even hop on my calendar to chat with me. Thanks so much for joining us. Have a great day!
“Branding with Friends” Episode 13
Show Notes + Resources
Here are 3 key tips for Podcast Guesting to grow your service business:
Know the podcast show well and if it's a fit for your business before you pitch
Listen to the episodes ahead of time so you're well versed to both pitch and appear
Ensure that your primary message is tied to the audience of the show
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To learn more about podcast guesting or to seek Kathleen’s help:
• Visit Kathleen at powerupforprofits.com
• Grab her free How to Become An In-demand Podcast Guest Webinar Training powerupforprofits.com/checklist
• Follow Kathleen on Instagram @kathleengage, LinkedIn @kathleengage, and The Power Up For Profits Facebook Group
