3 Book Writing Tips with Jodi Brandon
Branding with Friends | Episode 4
Featuring Expert Guest: Jodi Brandon of Jodi Brandon Editorial
Watch or listen to the video interview below or scroll down to read the transcription.
Meet Meet Jodi Brandon, Book Editing Expert
Today I'm going to introduce you to one of my dear friends in the business world. If you have ever wondered how to write a book, where to get started, how do you work with an editor, how do you publish your first book as a small business owner, you are going to love today's episode with my guest the amazing Jodi Brandon.
Jodi has more than 20 years of experience in book publishing. After many years working in traditional publishing, she began, serving the self-publishing community as both an editor and a book coach. Jodi's passion these days is working as a book publishing partner for creative entrepreneurs and small business owners who want to serve their business with a book. I also happen to think she's pretty wonderful because she was the incredible editor on my book Permission to Try.
Annie: So, Jodi, welcome to Branding with Friends.
Jodi: I am so excited to be here Annie, thanks for having me!
Annie: Yes, I'm so I am so glad you're here. I've been wanting to do this for a while because as I just referenced, I worked with Jodi to do both a developmental edit and a professional, copy edit and proofread on my first book. I had an incredible experience. And I want you guys to understand if you're thinking of writing a book, what are some things you need to know.
So Jodi is a perfect person to have come talk about book editing and publishing. Jodi is going to share three tips with you about what you can do to get started. And so as we always do with Branding with Annie, we're going to share those first two tips as we're going in our conversation today. But make sure you listen to the very end because we're going to save that third tip until the end of the episode, so you don't want to miss it.
Annie: So as we gear up for that sort of the first tip Jodi, we know your biography now, but just tell us a little bit about how you fell into this world of publishing and editing.
Jodi: Well, I'm one of those really weird and lucky people who knew from a very young age what I wanted to do with my life. I didn't know what it would look like. But I mean, even from the time I was four years old and could read and write, I knew that I wanted to work with books and words. And I was constantly writing stories and then correcting them.
And then I studied business and English in college, graduated and 13 days later moved to New York City because I knew that's where the publishing world lives. So I made a deal with my parents that I would work my tail off to get a job. And if I could get a job, I could stay in New York, and if I didn't, I couldn't. I had to move home. I did not want to move home. So I worked my tail off and got an entry-level job in publishing, which is how everybody starts out. And I just kind of worked my way up. And then, after a few years, I was at a different publishing house. And then I met my now-husband, and he was transferred to his company's Philadelphia office. And there's not a lot of publishing outside of scientific publishing in Philadelphia, even today. And that was definitely not my thing. So that's how I started, sort of freelancing on the side. And then I was working for publishers still.
But then a couple of people that I worked with, reached out to me and said, “Hey, do you work with people directly? I'm working on a second book, and I need some help with it.” And I was like, Yes, I can totally do that. And then I realized how much better being an entrepreneur is then the nine to five grind when somebody else is dictating your hours, your schedule, your pay, all of those things.
Annie: Yes, we're both reformed, corporate America survivors, right? You with publishing and me with Disney. It's like a great experience, but so glad we're not doing it anymore.
Jodi: Publishing is known for being a lousy salary industry unless you're on the business side of the industry versus the editorial production side, which is where I was. So the first time a client said to me, okay, what do you charge per hour? I was like, oh, man, this is it.
Annie: Yes, I have no good answer for this.
Jodi: I figured it out and realized that I could make way more money this way. And so I choose the projects I wanted to work on versus something being assigned to me. It was a lot of hustle at the beginning. But, now here we are years later.
Annie: That's the theme. And that's something we're seeing with all these Branding with Friends episodes, is everybody has some version of a story where it's like, we have no idea what we're doing. And to some degree, we still have no idea what we're doing, but we're more polished, right? And many of us are Corporate America survivors in that way, but grateful for our experience. So I love that we're having you on today. Because not only do you work with other entrepreneurs, you are one. Right? So you have a small business. So you really understand both sides of it, and you're an author. So tell us briefly about your books. I know you just came out with a second edition of it.
Jodi: I did, I just revised the book that basically is I mean, it's sort of what I teach my clients and walk them through. The Write Publish Market methodology. And I figured, as I started to work with more and more self publishing author entrepreneurs, I better put my money where my mouth is. If I'm going to tell them how to self publish a book on Amazon, I better have done it. So that's how the book originally came to be. And then there's been a lot of changes with Amazon the last couple of years and there were things in the book that were wrong based on those changes. So I was like, well, it's time for an update. So I just revised and put up the new edition this Fall. It's exciting.
Annie: And it's called so it's called Write Publish Market by Jodi Brandon.
Jodi: Yes.
Annie: Get this book. I read this book by the pool, I tab through it. It's just the right length. It's like a quick start guide. And now it's up to date, thanks to Jodi. But it was great even when I dogeared the heck out of it.
So I'm sure we've gotten people very excited too - not only because you're an author and entrepreneur, but you really coach people on this. So with this being your key expertise for those of us who are listening to this and thinking, I'm going to write that book, How do I get started? What do I need to know, from your perspective? What is the first tip, the first lesson you would give them?
#1 Action TIP
Clearly Identify Your Goals
Jodi: The first thing I think, is to clearly identify your goals. Why are you writing a book? I mean, as business owners, we have a lot of choices. We could do a course, we could start a podcast, we could do a challenge, we could just teach a master class. We could do any of these things. So why is it a book? That's I think the first thing to be clear on and then what do you want that book to do for you in your business? Because if you think it's going to make you a million dollars…
Annie: It can make me a million dollars on day one, obviously.
Jodi: I mean, most of my clients, money is not the primary goal. You can certainly get some momentum and build up a little nice little passive income stream. But for most author entrepreneurs are what I call small business owners writing a book. The goal is different. It's usually increased visibility, credibility, authority. Use it as a funnel to get people into your system for greater leads, one on one, services, things like that. You have to be clear about what that is. Because otherwise, if you're not clear about that, all of the work you're putting into writing, and editing, and publishing and all of that. It's not going to meet that goal. And then, I mean, that's no good, right?
Annie: And I think people realize, oh, do you know the current statistic of how many people who say that they're going to write a book versus who actually does, do you know the current stat?
Jodi: I don't know the difference. No.
Annie: I heard it was as high as like, only 1%. I have heard 20%. But having done it, I'm sure because you've done it as well, it to your point like, that's a great place to start having your goals in mind because you're going to need the momentum of why am I doing this?
Jodi: Yeah. It's a long-term project. It’s not something you can do well in a month or two months or whatever. I was just referencing not long ago when I was making the book trailer for my book release this statistic about how 80% of Americans want to write a book, that old New York Times study. And I what I want to know is what percent of entrepreneurs want to write a book? Because I would bet it's higher than 80%. I mean, obviously no way for me to know, right? Yeah. But I'm curious about that.
Annie: So do you have any advice for people on any good practices you have for goal setting, like for specifically for your book or exercises that you would recommend going through to identify goals for this?
Jodi: I don't know that it's necessarily a specific exercise, maybe more of a brainstorm. It has a lot to do with your business and who you are and where you want your business to go long term. A lot of my clients want to have a speaking arm of their business. And a book is a great tool for that. So maybe that's something you identify as something that you want, three years down the road, you want to be speaking. Or five years down the road, you want to be a conference keynote. It's really about thinking about the whole big picture and then figuring out how a book fits into that and dovetails with those.
Credibility and visibility are the two biggest things that I hear from every single person that reaches out to me wanting to know, should I write a book? Is it the right time? Those are the two main driving forces. I think you have to figure out what do you want to be visible for? What do you want to be credibly known for? Is that where you are now? Or do you have things to do to get there? And then how does a book sort of support those goals?
Annie: And I think that's the $64 million question. Here we are in Branding with Friends. Branding, being the operative word. And branding is just another way of saying, what do you want to be known for? What are you actively working to be known for? And a book in many ways, especially when you're an author, entrepreneur, or you're an entrepreneur who's writing a book, if at a bare minimum, you are picking what you want to be known for. And so that is so tied into what you would do from branding, whether it's a logo, color, the words you use to talk about your business extends into maybe the book that you would write, if you intend for that book to be in any way related to the business.
Jodi: Oh, absolutely, I mean, you could write the best book out there, but if nobody knows that it exists or it doesn't have anything to do with your business, people aren't going to marry the two.
Annie: And that's also about the power of setting those goals so that it's something you’re setting your time aside for. You’re running a business, you probably don't have a lot of time. And so you have to have those goals top of mind.
I put them on a big sheet, post-it board. It also helped me sort of have a true north. My book was not a book to grow the business. Permission to Try is a self-help book. I'm going to write a business branding book next. But I wanted to start with my story. And so I did a self-help book. And so my goals are really different. Even though it relates to my business and relates to my speaking career, my goals were, I wanted to help people and I wanted the book to exist because I want I've always wanted to write a book.
I set my expectations really low. And it was great because by the time I'd done beta readers, or just had people read the book, essentially, I'd already met my goals. I was under way less pressure to make X amount of money or become a bestseller. Those things did happen, but they weren't why I was doing it. And so not losing sight of why. I think you've just tipped on to like, well, if it's not relevant, why are you doing it?
I think that perfectly leads into your second tip. So tell us if you already have identified our goals, what is the next thing we need to identify?
#2 ACTION TIP
Identify Your Audience
Jodi: You've got to figure out who, what, why, where, when, how, Yes, it’s second grade English, but at its core basic level, those are the questions you need to answer.
The audience is the next big one. Because you can write a great book and nobody can find it. If you write a great book, but nobody wants it, you've also wasted your time. You've got to figure out who's the most likely audience to want this book and to purchase this book. And I mean, I can't tell you exactly who that is for you. What I can tell you it's not everyone.
Annie: I have something to say to everyone. Anyone can be touched by this book. Does your book serve a broader audience?. But even that I'd have to pick an audience, for it to be effective. If you're trying to talk to everybody, nobody can hear you.
Jodi: Exactly. And especially with a book to serve your business. I think that's an even more niche thing. You've got to figure out who exactly that is. And you've got to figure out what do they want? What do they want from you? What do they need from you?
It ties right back into your credibility. Because if you're going to write a book about something that has nothing to do with your business, and then you want to go speak about it, those two things are not coming together. Those conference organizers, those summit organizers, those people are not thinking of you as the go-to person for that topic. Because you're not giving people what they're asking for. So you need to figure out, who that is. You have to narrow it down to the point of, well, it's, women between the ages of 26 and 27 and a half who've been in business for 2.5. It doesn't have to be that specific.
Annie: With freckles on their right cheek.
Jodi: And there are secondary audiences, to which a lot of people, forget sometimes. So, maybe your primary audience is female business owners who've been in business, 10 or more years. And a secondary audience could be female business owners who've been in business 5 to 10 years, who might be trying to make that next step forward. Or people who want to start a business. I mean, it might be a little bit higher than what they need right now, but it could be good foundational information. That's a secondary audience though. So you don't want to write to that person. You want to write to this person and if this person gets something out of it, great. That's what I mean that appeases a lot of people when they're like, I don't want to narrow it too far.
Annie: That's so common. That's something again, where we see it in branding that I started to say we have to look at your primary ideal client. You have to pick. If you're trying to talk to everybody, no one can hear you. Right? So focusing back in and, and the thought is just like with a book. Your book is going to find its way into someone's hands that really need it. It's not the question of who does it add value to. It's who do you add the most value to?
The same is true with your business. If you've done the brand work in your business to know who your primary ideal clients are, and then you have this goal of writing a book, which is supposed to grow that business. Guess who should be the ideal reader book? It should be your ideal client.
Jodi: It amazes me honestly, still today, after all these years, how many of my clients are shocked when they're like, oh, I've done an exercise like this before for my business. I hope so!
Annie: It would prepare you, so if you were going to work with somebody like Jodi who would come in and help you either, do a developmental edit or come in and do the editing of your manuscript, from a professional standpoint, you will be more prepared if you are going back to, what does your business stand for? Have you done that foundational work of what the goals of your business are? What, who the audience is for your business, what you really do.
That is going to help take some of the guesswork out of this. What I run into all the time with business owners is that they have done more work than they realize. You don't give yourself credit, like you said, they're like, oh, I've done this experience before. And it's going to make writing a book so much more valuable.
The thing I would say about businesses, too, is people, I see that same reluctance. Oh, I don't want to niche down. I don't want to do this. But remember, you're always still the captain of the ship when it comes to your book. And when it comes, especially to your business, because there are people who come across my desk all the time that don't fit my process. They don't fit necessarily, the primary ideal client, but there's something about the project or the person and I say great yes, I'd love to do the project.
You get to decide what is most important to your business. And just like most important to your book, but I also think you're highlighting something that down the road is coming. You and I both know it because I do branding and marketing. You do marketing with books, and you've done it for yourself is that if you don't know the audience, who are you going to market the book? Let alone write it with them in mind?
Jodi: Absolutely. Right. You have to be able to find those people. And this is not one of my tips. It's just kind of like a bonus pro tip.
Annie: Oh bonus, pro tip.
Jodi: Whoever you work with on your manuscript should want to know those things. They should be asking you for those things. Because you're not looking for somebody to just correct grammar and be a seventh grade English teacher. You're looking for somebody who can help make your book as good as it can be for the audience you want to serve. Anybody who's working on your book should want to know these answers to those questions: what are your goals? Who is your audience?
Annie: And they should like your genre.
Jodi: Moving in the same direction.
Annie: I really think they should like the kinds of books you want to write.
Jodi: Oh, for sure that that is super helpful!
Annie: Yeah, I get that question a lot, Jodi from people who are asking me, how do you go about finding an editor? So what's your best advice for finding the right editor? For you?
Jodi: I think that sort of a continuation of what you just started talking about. Honestly, I mean, word of mouth is great. And that's in the entrepreneurial world, I mean, we value that over just about anything.
There are editing associations. Editing is tricky because there's no formal degree or anything like that in the United States so I mean, anybody could call themselves an editor. And many people do who are not qualified. So you have to make sure they are trusted.
There are organizations like The Editorial Freelancers Association and The American Copywriters Society. You just want to vet somebody. But honestly, word of mouth is great especially if somebody came to you and you had a great experience, that's a great way to spread the word.
And most people, most entrepreneurs know other entrepreneurs who've written a book. And so either it was a good experience, or it wasn't. But if it was, find out who, who was on their team. Who did their marketing? Who did their editing? Who did their layout, their formatting, all of those things? Because there are not a ton of publishing professionals who focus on working with author entrepreneurs. The publishing community is huge. But a lot of them don't niche down and work with self-publishing author business owners or author entrepreneurs.
Annie: So you maybe want to seek somebody out who's going to understand how different it is to write a book to grow your business versus a book that's fiction or versus your memoir, or even a self-help book. I came to you using my own experience because I knew you'd worked with a lot of people that I had seen. And I knew people had a great experience with you. So again, the word of mouth. I followed you on Instagram. And you were very consistent about what you were sharing. I bought your book. And that was really helpful to me. But I felt like yes, I know, my first book’s, not really business focused it’s more about growing as a speaker, but I know I want to write more than one. So wouldn't it be great to have a relationship with an editor who I could work with on multiple titles? To feel that long term relationship?
Jodi: And somebody who isn't going to do a good job on your book and knows it should tell you. I mean, everybody that I know in publishing would tell someone. It it doesn't make sense for anybody, for an editor or any kind of professional to take on a project that they know they can't do the best job for that client. Because it ends up just being I mean, a disaster all around.
Annie: So I think this is excellent advice for hiring to your point. It's something I see a lot with branding. And so somebody who's not a good fit right now could be a good fit in six months to a year. Could be a good fit with another business, or may just not be a great fit for my process for whatever reason, and I'm going to serve them better if I say, I don't think I'm the right partner. Here's who might be.
And I when I tell people that I always hear thank you for being candid, thank you for being honest, absolutely transparent. And I've had I've said no to people who've been sent me their cousin or their friend because it’s not a great fit for what I do. And then they are, that person who came to me in the first place is in a more successful place. Because they work with the right partner, not because they worked with me. And it takes a professional to do that.
I think that's great advice to be looking for, no matter who you're hiring, for branding, for editing, for marketing, for publishing. Make sure it's somebody who really is going to tell you and also push back on you and not just say, yeah, whatever you want, whatever you want on the cover is fine. That's somebody who's not giving you the value of their expertise.
Jodi: Absolutely not. As a self-publishing author, entrepreneur, but you're hiring these people for a reason. You're hiring them for their expertise. At the end of the day, you have the final say. But if you asked three different professionals, should I do this? And it's a no from all three of them and you do it then don't be shocked when there's a problem down the line.
Annie: And there are a lot of people who are just there to be executional partners.It's important to see the difference.
Jodi does developmental editing as well. And developmental editing, from my experience was really looking at the overall structure of the book, the theme of the book. I told my story out of order in Permission to Try. It's sort of a motivational pep talk. So you can read essay by essay, pick up the book anywhere you want, and still get something out of it.
So I was like, hey Jodi, does this make any sense? And apparently that's called the development edit. Which was so powerful. Just know that it doesn't have to work with somebody like Jodi as a book coach, as a developmental editor. So if you're not sure if maybe you want to try something, you have this idea outside the box. Or if you're not sure what your idea is going to make sense and fit your goals and your audience, you can have somebody like Jodi, do that review, right?
Jodi: It's hard to do that for yourself when it was your story. But a lot of times, even if it's not your story, if you've written a 50,000-word manuscript, you're so deep into it. It's so hard to pull yourself back out and say, oh, my gosh, right? These are the points. Have I lost my mind? And am I making sense? Yes, I feel like I've made them but have I? I mean that I did those things for my book, too. Otherwise, I mean, maybe you'll get lucky and strike gold and it'll be as strong as it could be. But it probably will be stronger if you get that professional opinion.
Annie: And I think too often people dismiss editing as like, oh, well, that's just grammar. And that was not my experience at all having had you do the developmental edit. Not only did you say yes, it makes sense., but here are some ways to tighten it. Here are some things that were unclear. Here are some ideas that I had. You were a partner throughout the processes if I had questions.
You did two passes with the grammar and the syntax and all that and proofread. There's just a lot more to it. I think talking to somebody like Jodi or another editor, as you're going through this, it is really the value of having a professional that has that expertise and that perspective.
Much like branding you want to look for partners who are going to be able to give you feedback. Be able to say, yes, this is where you might have wanted to go, here's why I would go this way. Here's what we can do instead to make sure you're set up for success.
Jodi: Well, you don't know what you don't know. And your expertise is branding, not book publishing. My expertise is book publishing, not branding. I think as business owners, we're generally pretty good about that. We know where our zone of genius is, and we were mostly pretty good about staying in our own lane.
And you hire people to help you, you bring people onto your team, whether it's your branding team, your book team, who you trust and whose opinions you value. And so it makes it easier to listen to those people and trust those people and trust that they have your projects best interests at heart.
Annie: Yes, and you absolutely did. I can't say enough good things. I know you've got one last tip to share with us today to bring it all together. But before we do that, I know you've got some fun things to share. How can our audience connect more with you after today's episode?
Jodi: You can find me on social media Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook. And just this fall started a new podcast also called Write Publish Market and you can find that anywhere you listen to podcasts. It's been a ton of fun. And in a couple of weeks you will be hearing Annie on there too.
Annie: Yeah, so by the time you get this episode, I'm sure that episode will be live because it's 2020 at this point. So not to date everything for everybody. But that's the joy of podcasts and shows like this. Go back and binge it all. But Jodi's been talking about really great topics, interviewing lots of different people.
I have an episode where I'm talking with her about my book Permission to Try so if you want to sort of hear it from Jodi's perspective, that's going to be a great episode to listen to and there's so much more. So it's the Write Market Publish Podcast.
Jodi: Write Publish Market. Yep.
Annie: Write Publish Market. Okay. So thank you so much. You've shared really two very powerful tips with us if we're thinking of writing a book. The first of course was to identify your goals, the why. The second was the who.
So I am thrilled. What’s the third one that we need to be focused on?
#3 Action Tip
Identify Your Topic - Your Zone of Genius
Jodi: Okay, the third is the what, your topic. You've got to find that sweet spot like we were just talking before, about your zone of genius, I call it. And that's probably the thing that if you're in Facebook groups, and people are asking questions about branding, they're tagging Annie. If they're asking questions about books, they might be tagging me.
It's the overall topic that you're asked about all the time. But then you've got to find the sweet spot because if I'm going to write a book on book publishing, self-publishing, it's going to be 1000 pages long.
If you're going to write a book on branding in general, it's gonna be 1000 pages long. And maybe that's what we want to write. I mean, not many people are reading thousand-page books these days. So you've got to find that sweet spot.
You've got to figure out what subtopic, what piece of that topic do you want to write your book about? And I suggest starting to do a brain dump. Do like a macro brain dump and then kind of like zone in on a couple of things and see what you have and then validate that topic with some people.
Ask three, four or five people that would be in your audience. Does this make sense? Is this what you would be looking to find out? If you're going to read a book about branding, would you rather read about x or y? And kind of, validate as you go with your ideal client. Don’t get yourself so far in the process that you then find out your audience doesn't want what you're looking for.
So I mean, it really is, all three of them tied together. The who, the why, and the what. Goals, audience, and topic. But yeah, you've got to find that sweet spot. So you're not writing for the next 17 years of your life, a 1000 page book.
Annie: Yes. And I think we've done a great job in this episode of trying to be time guardians for everyone. Listen to Jodi, she's trying to tell you how to not waste your time with writing a book. Writing a book takes so long you guys. It's worth it. It took me the better part of a year to do my book. But the whole point of this is to be really strategic and not try to bite off more than you can chew.
And I love Jodi that you've just talked about picking the topic, but it's not maybe the encyclopedia you're thinking. Because when you really start to think, well, if I wrote down everything I do in branding, it would be 1000 page book. Just like editing Write Publish Market, which is your new second edition, is a great sort of quick start guide. It's not everything, it's sort of the top line stuff. Enough to know to work with you.
That's what I would add to this. And where I'm thinking and going with book two is, I'm not going to share everything about branding, but it's going to be enough that you have a sense of why it's important, some ways to put it into action, and then if you want to take the next step. The next step would be to talk with me or potentially work together in some way so I can help you get there. The other thought being too that, we didn't talk about this today. But if you have all these fabulous ideas, just know that they can go into multiple books.
So break up the series and then you do one on naming and one on taglines and this and that, and drill down. If you're so good at it, you're going to knock them out. Great. You come back to the series.
We hope you guys enjoyed another episode of Branding With Friends. Huge thanks to my special guest again Jodi Brandon of Jodi Brandon Editorial and of course the Write Publish Market Podcast available where podcasts are listened to. I hope you will tune in next time when we tackle yet another topic that meets branding and business. Until then, I'm Annie Franceschi of Greatest Story Creative. Find all our episodes, branding resources, and more at our website GreateStstoryCreative.com. Have a good one!
“Branding with Friends” Episode 4
Show Notes + Resources
Here are 3 key tips to writing a book to grow your service business:
Identify your Goals
Identify your Audience
Identify your Topic
Dive deeper into branding and growing your greatest business with Annie Franceschi:
• Subscribe to the Greatest Story Creative newsletter to have new episodes of “Branding with Friends” sent right to your inbox the day they premiere!
• Find past episodes at BrandingwithFriends.com
• Connect with Annie for consultations, resources, and more here on greateststorycreative.com
• Follow Annie & Greatest Story Creative online:
--- Facebook - facebook.com/greateststorycreative
--- LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/anniefranceschi
--- Instagram - @annie.franceschi
